Home schooling

[Riz]

My son is currently being home schooled and my daughter will also be taught at home. It used to be that the majority of home schooling was done due to religious reasons, but that information is about 5 years old. It appears, from what I'm seeing, that the vast majority are actually a lot less religious and a lot more hippy.

We are more than capable of teaching our children at this point in time. My wife taught K-3 before we had children and has a masters in education. When we get beyond where she feels comfortable, we will reassess the situation and decide what we think is best.

My children play with other children almost daily. They are getting plenty of socialization. As for the competition argument, that's a load of crap. Why would competition only reside in a classroom? I don't just hand ANYTHING to my children. They earn what they have. They work for things. (Ok, not my daughter, she's only 1 1/2). My son is far from a spoiled pampered child who has been given everything.

I'm not worried about protecting my children from others. My son was bullied once. I taught him how to throw a punch. He understands that you sometimes need to defend yourself. He doesn't get bullied anymore and he cares enough for others that he doesn't bully them in return. It's called raising your children to be well-adjusted. That comes with parents who pay attention and care. School doesn't teach that, you learn that at home (so it's out of the realm of this discussion).

I'm more than able to teach my child math and computer skills. I'm quite able to teach them history, and my son is already learning Spanish and knows some Irish Gaelic (my wife and I both speak Irish and use it around the house now and again. I lived with a native speaker for a number of years and fall into speaking in Irish when I'm tired).

Basically, we can give our children better at home than they could possibly get elsewhere at the moment. As I said, it's a decision that will require constant re-evaluation.

[Moristans]

As for the competition argument, that's a load of crap. Why would competition only reside in a classroom?

In a nutshell, I agree. I don't think that K-12 education needs to be a place that makes an effort to weed kids out. That's going to happen anyways. What public education can't do is take the time to understand each and every kid that goes through the system. A homeschooled kid gets what every public school teacher would love to be able to accomplish in their classroom, the kind of personalized experience that allows every kid to have the best possible chance for success.

[Vllad]

As for the competition argument, that's a load of crap. Why would competition only reside in a classroom?

Competition doesn't just reside in the class room. It resides in organized sports that represent the schools, it is school sponcered activities such as clubs, it is during recess, PE, the cafiteria and maybe most importantly it is competition when dealing with the opposite sex and when dealing with conflict with other kids. Especially kids of different color, race and religion.

I don't think very many parents have the mental fortitude to teach their kids the ambition that is neccessary to be successful in this world. In-fact I am not even convinced ambition can be taught. That is very clear since different kids have different levels of ambition no matter how they are schooled.

I find it a load of crap that kids can learn some of the most important skills like ambition by being home schooled for 12 grades.

I believe you need both home schooling and a public/private education to help your children reach their best potential.


Vllad

[Thudz]

As for the competition argument, that's a load of crap. Why would competition only reside in a classroom?

Competition doesn't just reside in the class room. It resides in organized sports that represent the schools, it is school sponcered activities such as clubs, it is during recess, PE, the cafiteria and maybe most importantly it is competition when dealing with the opposite sex and when dealing with conflict with other kids. Especially kids of different color, race and religion.

I don't think very many parents have the mental fortitude to teach their kids the ambition that is neccessary to be successful in this world. In-fact I am not even convinced ambition can be taught. That is very clear since different kids have different levels of ambition no matter how they are schooled.

I find it a load of crap that kids can learn some of the most important skills like ambition by being home schooled for 12 grades.

I believe you need both home schooling and a public/private education to help your children reach their best potential.


Vllad

Alot of biology and environment goes into a persons mental make up. Ambition is one of those things that just happens. I had no ambition for about the first 18 years of my life. And then I had some for about a year until the USAF beat it out of me then it wasn't until I was about 29 that I really kicked myself into high gear.

[Grieve]

Riding on a school bus, as a elementary school student, with high school students gave me alot of vital life lessons and made me the person I am today.

Well that settles it...there's no way in hell I'm letting my kids on a school bus!!! :wink:

Actually we recently had an incident where a girl (who I think was 7 or 8, not even a teen) who is at pre-school with our 5 year old made an extremely disturbing comment to her that caused us to contact social services in case this girl is being abused at home. I think that was the main tipping point for my wife to consider home school. You figure if our girls are going to be hearing stuff like that from 7 year olds, what's it going to be like when they start mixing with older kids?

[Thudz]

Riding on a school bus, as a elementary school student, with high school students gave me alot of vital life lessons and made me the person I am today.

Well that settles it...there's no way in hell I'm letting my kids on a school bus!!! :wink:

Actually we recently had an incident where a girl (who I think was 7 or 8, not even a teen) who is at pre-school with our 5 year old made an extremely disturbing comment to her that caused us to contact social services in case this girl is being abused at home. I think that was the main tipping point for my wife to consider home school. You figure if our girls are going to be hearing stuff like that from 7 year olds, what's it going to be like when they start mixing with older kids?

Can't hide your children from the world forever. Eventually they'll know every bad word in the book. I prefer to teach them myself that way they use them in context better.

[Dustie]

Riding on a school bus, as a elementary school student, with high school students gave me alot of vital life lessons and made me the person I am today.

Well that settles it...there's no way in hell I'm letting my kids on a school bus!!! :wink:

Actually we recently had an incident where a girl (who I think was 7 or 8, not even a teen) who is at pre-school with our 5 year old made an extremely disturbing comment to her that caused us to contact social services in case this girl is being abused at home. I think that was the main tipping point for my wife to consider home school. You figure if our girls are going to be hearing stuff like that from 7 year olds, what's it going to be like when they start mixing with older kids?

I'm so glad you have kids to worry about now. Give it a few years and you'll be watching Sean Hannity with me.

[Snowreap]

I don't think that K-12 education needs to be a place that makes an effort to weed kids out. That's going to happen anyways. What public education can't do is take the time to understand each and every kid that goes through the system. A homeschooled kid gets what every public school teacher would love to be able to accomplish in their classroom, the kind of personalized experience that allows every kid to have the best possible chance for success.

public school teachers with this desire have probably seen enough kids to be able to effectively personalize a curriculum for each kid. that is, being a public school teacher teaches you things about education that a "regular parent" won't really be aware of.

so while I heartily approve of teachers deciding to home-school their own children, I suspect that many parents are woefully underqualified for the job, and do their children a disservice by attempting it.

home-schooling because you believe your child will get a better education is one thing, but home-schooling because the other children are a bad influence on your little angel is probably unwise.

the fact that both happen muddies the water when discussing whether home schooling is, in general, a good thing or not. I think we can agree that home-schooling is a good thing when the parents know what they're doing. the question is, how often does that happen?

-ken

[Moristans]

public school teachers with this desire have probably seen enough kids to be able to effectively personalize a curriculum for each kid. that is, being a public school teacher teaches you things about education that a "regular parent" won't really be aware of.

You're right. It's not an impossible task if class sizes are manageable.

But, I'm just saying the amount of personalization can never compare to homeshcooling where a parent at home is dealing with the same kids all day, and all night, and all day again. In effect, each kid has their own individualized education plan. You don't have to have the knowledge or experience with how other kids might deal with the lesson if you only hvae to deal with a couple of kids, ever, your kids. That's just an advantage.

Thankfully, or regrettably, I don't have to interact with each and every kid on a one to one basis, since most kids are content to go along with the classroom activities. The ones that get the personalized attention are the ones that demand it, for better or for worse. That includes tutoring hours that are open for everybody and mandatory for a specific few.

Is it enough of an advantage to make-up for the lack of a public education social life? IMHO, sure, if you're kids have the opportunity to have a normal social life outside of school.

Vllad, I played 3 years of organized tackle football (Junior All American Football) before I got to middle school, where they only offered flag football(:roll. School is not the only place to learn valuable life lessons and I would argue that K-12 education shouldn't be the place where you learn the cutthroat lessons of life the hard way.

[Vllad]

Vllad, I played 3 years of organized tackle football (Junior All American Football) before I got to middle school, where they only offered flag football(:roll. School is not the only place to learn valuable life lessons and I would argue that K-12 education shouldn't be the place where you learn the cutthroat lessons of life the hard way.

If you don't have it before you leave school you path in life can already be decided.

I will go with you if you can show where you are supposed to learn these things if not in school.


Vllad

[Jakensama]

As for the competition argument, that's a load of crap. Why would competition only reside in a classroom?

In a nutshell, I agree. I don't think that K-12 education needs to be a place that makes an effort to weed kids out. That's going to happen anyways. What public education can't do is take the time to understand each and every kid that goes through the system. A homeschooled kid gets what every public school teacher would love to be able to accomplish in their classroom, the kind of personalized experience that allows every kid to have the best possible chance for success.

Thats what their parents want, and they loose out on a myriad of other experiences. As a victim of home schooling I would never reccomend it to anyone who wasn't in a situation where the public schools were just awful and the private schools were ridiculously expensive.

Home school can't offer what teenagers need, some ability to go out on their own without their parents while still being relatively safe. Being in speech and debate was what turned me from the introvert that homeschool made me into the arrogant prick I am today, and goddamnit, you should want your kid to be an arrogant prick as well! And that doesn't happen if you leave them in home school, they just learn to make macaroni pictures of jesus.

[Diggles]

And that doesn't happen if you leave them in home school, they just learn to make macaroni pictures of jesus.

Mmm...macaroni Jesus'n'cheese

[Moristans]

Thats what their parents want, and they loose out on a myriad of other experiences. As a victim of home schooling I would never reccomend it to anyone who wasn't in a situation where the public schools were just awful and the private schools were ridiculously expensive.

Heh, you've summarized California in one sentence.

In all seriousness, i think there's a happy medium between the two that both a good public education and good home schooling can offer. I definitely support public education though.

You have to remember, anytime there's a budget crisis in public education, that myriad of experiences offered in public school gets cut. You lose music programs, funding for organizations, shops, and even sports. At the same time, if you homeschool your kids, there are agreements that allow your kids to participate in extracurricular activities in the local public schools. Both of them done right, can complement each other.

Hey Vllad, I'll take you through my Santa Ana barrio and introduce you to my big brother and big sister.

I agree that the competition that K-12 offers is a great learning tool, but the sad truth is though, without support at home or strong positive role models either outside or inside of school, all school mostly does is teach you that you are a loser. In the big city, there are options and programs available that you country bumpkins don't have. Those programs, often funded through education money, are the reason why a lot of kids make it through K-12 despite what happens to them in school.

[Vllad]

Hey Vllad, I'll take you through my Santa Ana barrio and introduce you to my big brother and big sister.

While I live in Buffalo today you must have forgotten that I grew up on 132nd street inbetween Crenshaw and Normandie.



Vllad

[Moristans]

Oo, Gardena? Didn't know that.

[amins]

Not sure why the socialization and competition factor is so significant in homeschooling....

You teach your kids to respect others and stand up for ones self, to do what they love (what interests them), and then teach them the skills to learn, then they can apply it to how to make money doing what they love...

Passion > Competition

[Thudz]

Not sure why the socialization and competition factor is so significant in homeschooling....

You teach your kids to respect others and stand up for ones self, to do what they love (what interests them), and then teach them the skills to learn, then they can apply it to how to make money doing what they love...

Passion > Competition

Without competition you never face true adversity. In order to succeed you must learn to overcome adversity. Only after you've failed can you learn to succeed.

[amins]

Not sure why the socialization and competition factor is so significant in homeschooling....

You teach your kids to respect others and stand up for ones self, to do what they love (what interests them), and then teach them the skills to learn, then they can apply it to how to make money doing what they love...

Passion > Competition

Without competition you never face true adversity. In order to succeed you must learn to overcome adversity. Only after you've failed can you learn to succeed.

Well that's a load of crap... First, you're going to have to explain "true adversity", because people with addictions face adversity each and every day, and that challenge is no less or more than trying to beat the guy beside you for your career job...

So no, I don't need competition in order face adversity... however, you do need to be passionate and have a goal set for yourself or you'll lack direction.

The filthy rich don't have any need for competition, yet they still seem to lead successful lives....

Having said all that, it's really more a division between 'haves' and 'have not': those that have it and those that don't.... in either case, passion > competition imo.

We get so caught up in the 'who' (competition is brought on by wanting to do better... better than what though: We focus more on the 'Better than Who" rather than "Better than before"), rather than getting closer to the goal/achievement (wealth, ability, skill, etc)...

There's a shit load of stress we put on our children today and this way of thinking doesn't help, imo: We don't need competition to learn how to stand up after a fall, in order to succeed. That's all.

[Venganza]

Good for you riz, I'd home-school my kids if i thought i could keep from throttling them.

Nothing but respect for anyone who can handle home-schooling their kids.

[Thudz]

Not sure why the socialization and competition factor is so significant in homeschooling....

You teach your kids to respect others and stand up for ones self, to do what they love (what interests them), and then teach them the skills to learn, then they can apply it to how to make money doing what they love...

Passion > Competition

Without competition you never face true adversity. In order to succeed you must learn to overcome adversity. Only after you've failed can you learn to succeed.

Well that's a load of crap... First, you're going to have to explain "true adversity", because people with addictions face adversity each and every day, and that challenge is no less or more than trying to beat the guy beside you for your career job...

So no, I don't need competition in order face adversity... however, you do need to be passionate and have a goal set for yourself or you'll lack direction.

The filthy rich don't have any need for competition, yet they still seem to lead successful lives....

Having said all that, it's really more a division between 'haves' and 'have not': those that have it and those that don't.... in either case, passion > competition imo.

We get so caught up in the 'who' (competition is brought on by wanting to do better... better than what though: We focus more on the 'Better than Who" rather than "Better than before"), rather than getting closer to the goal/achievement (wealth, ability, skill, etc)...

There's a shit load of stress we put on our children today and this way of thinking doesn't help, imo: We don't need competition to learn how to stand up after a fall, in order to succeed. That's all.

We put stress on children today? I couldn't disagree with that more. My children have it so easy compared to my childhood you can't even compare the two. And from what I've heard from my father and grandfather thing have only gotten better.

Example:

My parents were poor, dirt poor. I was born in a 18 foot trailer. Both of my parents worked full time which left me to cloth myself, feed myself and get myself to school starting Kindergarten, yes 5 years old. I had my own key to the house because my parents were not home until several hours after school was out. At the age of 7 I was doing a morning shift milking cows before school and a night shift milking cows to earn money to buy school clothes and shoes. I earned a quarter for every Pigeon and a dollar for every Coy Dog I killed on the farm. I dehorned, castrated and assisted in the birthing of the livestock. I slaughtered, de-feathered and gutted chickens and was taught how to properly slaughter and dress pigs. On multiple occasions I was chased by a bull and multiple occasions kicked by cows, once resulting in 5 broken ribs and a sprained wrist. I've fallen over 50 feet from the top of a silo luckily into about 30 feet of silage.

Fast forward to today and my three children :

The hardest either of my sons has had to work is to pick up the hundreds of dollars worth of toys from their separate private bedroom floors. They are fed and dressed each morning by their Mother who then drives them to school personally. After school they do whatever home work they have and watch cartoons on a 52" widescreen flat panel LCD TV until I come home from work at 8 PM. We then have a wonderfully prepared and often gourmet dinner and chat about the day. They then take relaxing hot baths before being read a bedtime story and put to bed. Rinse and repeat.

Kids today are being stressed my ass.

[Jakensama]

Kids today are being stressed my ass.

Thats not fair, I mean maybe somebody threw a dodge ball at them in gym class.

Oh wait, there is no more dodge ball in gym classes, it excludes kids....

[Snowreap]

stress is different today.

if you were dirt poor growing up on a farm (like my father was) then you at least knew where your next meal was coming from. you didn't need to stress over the future as much, because you could always fall back on hard work if necessary.

today, hard work guarantees nothing. the company you work for may lay you off without warning at any time. changing technology may render your job skills obsolete. labor and tax laws may make it unprofitable for anybody to hire you. you have much less control over your own destiny than you did before, and that causes its own kind of stress.

-ken

[Jakensama]

I have no agrarian backgrounds that I remember, but I seem to recall hard work failing to save plenty of farmers back in the day whose crops failed or whose cows died of anthrax.

Certainly the stress of their future marketability is not the leading concern of most high school kids today.

[Trotts]

Every generation have their stressors, I think most of us were in the whole Gen - X when we were told there were going to be no jobs for us as the Baby Boomers basically had all the good jobs and there was no room for us.

One thing that I find is that kids these days have so much homework. Hell I don't even remember homework in public school.

Kids in Grade 3 or 4 have about an hour of homework and that scales up to almost 2 hours a night by grade 6. On top of that, there seems to be on kids to get good grades, perform etc. it is ridiculous. I don't even thing kids for the most part know how to behave like kids anymore.

I don't even remember homework from school in public school or stress until you started thinking of University.

If they had to go out and milk the cows, knit rugs or make running shoes in sweat shops outside of school these days, I'm pretty sure they'd drop out by grade 4.

[Jakensama]

When did kids start getting piled on with homework? I graduated from high school in '99 and it was still a joke then, so unless the past decade has been just brutal..