I am more in Joe's camp on this one. And yes, Vllad, I do also mix the books and show together - definitely a fair criticism for many of the agro show watchers.
Arya getting the kill bothers me only in the sense that I didn't know trampolines had been installed in the godswood. When you watch that last sequence, the only indication of Arya's presence was that ever so brief breath of wind. The problem is, at no point has the show indicated she can go invisible. And that IS what she would have had to do. When you rewatch the scene, bran was completely surrounded. The White walkers were behind the NK (the direction Arya came from). And look how far Theon had to run to get to the NK. That's the distance Aria had to cross. The ONLY way for her to have reached him, was for her to be invisible.
This is the major flaw in the show's presentation of this ending. If we had prior knowledge that she had invisibility, it becomes feasible. But we don't have that. What Jacquen pulled off on the lannisters was at night with a spread out group of guards at relative ease etc. This was really quite different.
But not only does Arya now have invisibility, but she also has super human leaping abilities.
In the end, that particular scene could have been handled 100x better. Hell, just Jon getting through and creating a distraction would have helped, or just some other indication explaining HOW... and that is what people are in an uproar about. We are left asking ourselves HOW!?!?!?!
By itself, I could probably forgive it, but the other issues in the episode are so many. The ham-fisted foreshadowing, plot armor etc were ridiculous. So by the time we got to the end, I had already been taken out of the moment, and silly things just started cascading out of the episode.
I have heard MANY different ways the dothraki should have been used. Would the outcome be different in the end? No. I think you're absolutely right that they were going to get mowed over regardless. But cavalry is used to flank an otherwise already engaged enemy. Basic strategy. And enough people saw the stupidity of the charge regardless of how futile it was going to be in the end. Them being enveloped as quickly as they were is also a problem. Just the physical presence of the bodies themselves wouldn't allow for it (hall blocking ftw!). Why didn't the trebs fire first and at least "light the way" a little (yes obviously there were budget things to think about). How is it that Jorah is the only one to make it back? Not a single guard in the crypts? really? I really hope they explain what the hell Bran was doing the entire time. How about the mindless undead giant picking up Mormont junior. Why?! Just for the sake of the visual and dumb fan service - like most of the other issues.
Trebuchets set up in front of the fiery trench instead of behind. Hell even the soldiers being in front of the trench instead of behind... The Trebs not continuing to fire? Why weren't they inside the walls even? Why weren't the wights being fired on with arrows while they were stuck behind the flame wall. Why was the library deathly quiet, while literal hell is going on outside? The number of times where we got overhead shots of our heroes surrounded by totally overwhelming odds that they had zero chance of surviving more than a few seconds (and yet dragged out for ages).
The seemingly immortal hero characters of the series I have issues with as well. I think that last sequence showing almost nobody left except those characters, with their backs against the walls, or in Sam's case, literally getting dogpiled on the ground and still not dying... the way it was shot, and how dragged out it was, I found myself saying out loud "oh, come on, I get it... could you drag it out any longer???" The fact they weren't dying, I could forgive because these are undead, and perhaps are flailing wildly rather than aiming. But if that's the case, then the other soldiers should have lasted longer too right?
I did have an issue that none of the white walker generals did anything, but you very correctly point out that if they were killed their soldiers would have been too, and they wouldn't have exposed themselves to that. I hadn't thought about that.
I also think they scaled the walls way too easily. Then Theon's charge was just a dumb move. The lighting of the trench was also dumb. You had guys running there with torches one by one getting taken out, why not do what they did for melissandre, for the guys holding the torches??
The bottom line for me: I don't have any problem with Arya being the one to take out the NK. I have a HUGE problem with how the show writers attempted/failed to explain to the viewers why and how. This episode just challenged the willing suspension of disbelieve too much, for too many people. And where the books affect my bias, is not because of the difference in story, but rather because I was NEVER left with the sense of 'how the eff?!" when I was watching Martin's writing vs the shows writing. He knew had to explain stuff better, and he did. These guys got stuck wanting to show very specific vignettes, and were too in love/focused with the visual they were going to create.
All that said, it was a beautiful looking episode after I turned the brightness all the way up on my older TV. Everything about the Dothraki charge was visually mind blowing. The swords being lit up. The lights of the dothraki flickering out. From the perspective of Jon and Dany, the wave breaking on the undead front was also just incredible. I do wish I could have seen just a slightly better glimpse of what they ran into. The two dragons fighting over the godswood, while Theon was fending off the undead was amazing - really really amazing.
Arya getting the kill bothers me only in the sense that I didn't know trampolines had been installed in the godswood. When you watch that last sequence, the only indication of Arya's presence was that ever so brief breath of wind. The problem is, at no point has the show indicated she can go invisible. And that IS what she would have had to do. When you rewatch the scene, bran was completely surrounded. The White walkers were behind the NK (the direction Arya came from). And look how far Theon had to run to get to the NK. That's the distance Aria had to cross. The ONLY way for her to have reached him, was for her to be invisible.
This is the major flaw in the show's presentation of this ending. If we had prior knowledge that she had invisibility, it becomes feasible. But we don't have that. What Jacquen pulled off on the lannisters was at night with a spread out group of guards at relative ease etc. This was really quite different.
But not only does Arya now have invisibility, but she also has super human leaping abilities.
In the end, that particular scene could have been handled 100x better. Hell, just Jon getting through and creating a distraction would have helped, or just some other indication explaining HOW... and that is what people are in an uproar about. We are left asking ourselves HOW!?!?!?!
By itself, I could probably forgive it, but the other issues in the episode are so many. The ham-fisted foreshadowing, plot armor etc were ridiculous. So by the time we got to the end, I had already been taken out of the moment, and silly things just started cascading out of the episode.
I have heard MANY different ways the dothraki should have been used. Would the outcome be different in the end? No. I think you're absolutely right that they were going to get mowed over regardless. But cavalry is used to flank an otherwise already engaged enemy. Basic strategy. And enough people saw the stupidity of the charge regardless of how futile it was going to be in the end. Them being enveloped as quickly as they were is also a problem. Just the physical presence of the bodies themselves wouldn't allow for it (hall blocking ftw!). Why didn't the trebs fire first and at least "light the way" a little (yes obviously there were budget things to think about). How is it that Jorah is the only one to make it back? Not a single guard in the crypts? really? I really hope they explain what the hell Bran was doing the entire time. How about the mindless undead giant picking up Mormont junior. Why?! Just for the sake of the visual and dumb fan service - like most of the other issues.
Trebuchets set up in front of the fiery trench instead of behind. Hell even the soldiers being in front of the trench instead of behind... The Trebs not continuing to fire? Why weren't they inside the walls even? Why weren't the wights being fired on with arrows while they were stuck behind the flame wall. Why was the library deathly quiet, while literal hell is going on outside? The number of times where we got overhead shots of our heroes surrounded by totally overwhelming odds that they had zero chance of surviving more than a few seconds (and yet dragged out for ages).
The seemingly immortal hero characters of the series I have issues with as well. I think that last sequence showing almost nobody left except those characters, with their backs against the walls, or in Sam's case, literally getting dogpiled on the ground and still not dying... the way it was shot, and how dragged out it was, I found myself saying out loud "oh, come on, I get it... could you drag it out any longer???" The fact they weren't dying, I could forgive because these are undead, and perhaps are flailing wildly rather than aiming. But if that's the case, then the other soldiers should have lasted longer too right?
I did have an issue that none of the white walker generals did anything, but you very correctly point out that if they were killed their soldiers would have been too, and they wouldn't have exposed themselves to that. I hadn't thought about that.
I also think they scaled the walls way too easily. Then Theon's charge was just a dumb move. The lighting of the trench was also dumb. You had guys running there with torches one by one getting taken out, why not do what they did for melissandre, for the guys holding the torches??
The bottom line for me: I don't have any problem with Arya being the one to take out the NK. I have a HUGE problem with how the show writers attempted/failed to explain to the viewers why and how. This episode just challenged the willing suspension of disbelieve too much, for too many people. And where the books affect my bias, is not because of the difference in story, but rather because I was NEVER left with the sense of 'how the eff?!" when I was watching Martin's writing vs the shows writing. He knew had to explain stuff better, and he did. These guys got stuck wanting to show very specific vignettes, and were too in love/focused with the visual they were going to create.
All that said, it was a beautiful looking episode after I turned the brightness all the way up on my older TV. Everything about the Dothraki charge was visually mind blowing. The swords being lit up. The lights of the dothraki flickering out. From the perspective of Jon and Dany, the wave breaking on the undead front was also just incredible. I do wish I could have seen just a slightly better glimpse of what they ran into. The two dragons fighting over the godswood, while Theon was fending off the undead was amazing - really really amazing.
Gameless (for now)