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+---- Thread: Protection (/showthread.php?tid=9219)
Re: Protection - Vanraw - 11-03-2011
Yes you did.
Watching the news this morning, it seemed more like Greece was going to still have a vote that would in effect be a vote to stay or leave the euro.
I guess this was well played by the french.
Re: Protection - Breand - 11-04-2011
anyone taking a chance on the Groupon euphoria this morning?
Re: Protection - Vanraw - 11-04-2011
I'm not. I'm usually wrong about these internet ipo's. My guess is it will tank, which means most people will double their money.....
Re: Protection - Grieve - 11-04-2011
Me either. It's already dropped from 31 to $26.68. Difficult to rationalize it being worth $13 billion.
Re: Protection - Breand - 11-07-2011
especially when Amazon is doing the same thing, as well as my local newspaper...
looks like Italy is taking over the news cycle. If people are shitting their pants about tiny little Greece, what happens when the 3rd largest Euro economy needs a bailout?
Re: Protection - Vanraw - 11-08-2011
I dont understand why the market kept freaking out over Greece, and just seems to be yawning over Italy. Italy is in terrible shape and its the 3rd largest economy in the EU.
Im waiting on some new big drop so I can buy more TNA.....
Re: Protection - Grieve - 11-09-2011
Looks like you'll get your wish today...
Re: Protection - Vanraw - 11-09-2011
How looowwwww will it gooooooo.....
Re: Protection - Vanraw - 11-17-2011
Thinking on jumping back in as a bull....
Re: Protection - Vanraw - 11-17-2011
Bought tna at the close. 42.23
Re: Protection - Breand - 11-21-2011
I finally got out of TZA witha 3% loss today. Gonna turn it around into TNA.
Re: Protection - Grieve - 11-21-2011
I'm tempted to buy TNA, but things look really crappy right now. Maybe sitting on TZA for a while is the better option...
Re: Protection - Vanraw - 11-21-2011
Yea I think TNA is a buy right now though we might have a couple more down day's until everyone realizes congress cant / wont do shit. Once that drama and finger pointing starts in earnest, who knows.... Im down on my TNA... Might dump it today if the market goes up a little from its low.
I do think we have established new ranges, and doubt we will see the low 11k on the dow.
Only other big drivers down would be Italy / spain saga.....
Re: Protection - Grieve - 11-21-2011
Or more downgrades on US debt, or policy from congress that blunts the "automatic" $1T of cuts that will kick in now the super-committee has blown it...
Re: Protection - Grieve - 11-21-2011
I bought some $55 QQQ calls (expire Friday) in the hope of a snapback from this plunge. Limiting my exposure to that for now, though.
Re: Protection - Breand - 11-30-2011
well hello nurse. TNA just rocketed to a 12% profit today...hmmm....
Re: Protection - Grieve - 11-30-2011
Yeah, my QQQ calls expired worthless on Friday - what terrible timing on my part.
Would have made a nice profit this week.Be interesting to see if this latest rally has legs, or will fizzle like the last few. Certainly the news seems more positive, but the longer term outlook still seem dire in Europe...
Re: Protection - Vanraw - 11-30-2011
Yea, I had TNA at 42 and bought a bunch more at 35..... I have sell orders in at 50 and 47.50 respectivly.
What a day. Jobs outlook was good as well. Friday Jobs data should be good so I think we are going to have a couple more days of up, before the shorters cover and the gainers lock in profits....
One interesting note is I was reading that alot of traders are using ETFs as a tax mechanism to lock in losses but avoid the wash rule. They sell the stock or ETF to lock in the loss and turn around and buy another etf that is based on a different index, even though its underling stockthey sold is in the etf. As long as the etf is based on a different index, it doesnt get hit by the wash rule.
Re: Protection - Vanraw - 12-01-2011
A really good read on the whole Europe debt crisis and unresolved / huge gaps that still exist between the EU members. Germany is playing hardball / chicken and I dont know that I disagree with Merkel's stance. But the massive gains in the market yesterday (dow up like $490) will likely see more bouncing up and for the near future, as the issues is far from resolved.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-12-01/merkel-rejects-ecb-role-in-favor-of-budget-limits-as-route-to-stem-crisis.html
Quote:Merkel’s refusal to deploy the ECB is a rebuff to President Barack Obama after he exhorted Europe’s leaders to take more action to combat the crisis. The chancellor is loath to agree to follow the Federal Reserve and the Bank of England in policies she views as akin to fighting debt with more debt. Enlisting the ECB in battling the crisis would violate the central bank’s independence and set it on a course of action that might not work, destroying its credibility.
Quote:The EFSF looks like “yesterday’s story†as German policy makers play a “huge game of chicken†over future economic and monetary union to achieve their budget-tightening aims, said Jim O’Neill, chairman of Goldman Sachs Asset Management.
“How close to the edge do you want to take this?†O’Neill said yesterday in a Bloomberg Television interview with Francine Lacqua. “It needs Germany and the ECB to decide whether they want EMU to exist or not, because that’s how it’s going.â€
Look for more volatility like we have seen, and wait for the "real lows" and Real highs". The only thing we can count on right now is bouncy bouncy bouncy.... Which means there is short term money to be made
Re: Protection - Breand - 12-01-2011
Yeah to me the ECB is the smart guy here, and Helicopter Ben is just doing what he always does, printing more money. The ECB is actually doing what Central Banks are mandated to do, keep inflation in check.
Re: Protection - Breand - 12-05-2011
Anyone think this rally has any more legs? Im sitting on a 20% return on TNA and thinking of pulling the trigger. It's getting near a top that hasnt hit since July so I think I am pushing my limit here.
Re: Protection - Vanraw - 12-05-2011
My gut feeling is we are still going to go higher by year end, but I have no doubt that the EU is still got some horse crap they will chuck on the table.
having said that, I sold all my TNA at 42.27 just now.
waiting and seeing now.
Re: Protection - Vanraw - 12-05-2011
First let me say again, that I am not a tax expert, nor am I a trader / market expert. And that what Im about to talk about is dangerous nasty stuff in which you could lose all your money, and you only have to blame your self....... or Grieve of course, cause we can always blame him.
In this thread, I've been playing with making money off the market fluctuation by using triple leveraged ETF's and bracketed sell orders. Buying triple leveraged ETF’s that are Bear or Bull depending on what I think the market as a whole is going to do. However buying and selling the same ETF within 30 day’s violates the WASH rule. I knew this, but proceeded with my “experiment†anyway.
Lots of information on the internet on Wash rules…..
One way around the wash rule is you become a trader business. That is you file your taxes as you run a business that trades stocks and you do taxes based on the business profit loss etc not the individual trades.There are some vague rules the IRS defines of who is or is not a trader business (Again, tons of info out there if you search).
Another way around it is to assure you buy and sell stocks / ETF’s that are different. ETF's can be traded in this way, as long as the base of the ETF is a different index. So for instance, you might own Exon, it goes way down, and while you still want to own the stock / sector, you would also like to lock in the loss for taxes. So you sell Exon, and rather then buy exon back, buy a energy based ETF that might have 10 or 15% of its holdings in Exon. Even though the ETF might own Exon, it doesn’t break the wash rule. But buying and selling the energy ETF multiple times in 30 days does break the rule.
In that light, I pulled together index based ETF’s that are all leveraged. I looked for triple leverage (read dangerous!!!) ETF’s. I then looked for ETF’s that were Domestic in nature and has substantial 90 day average volume. I then made sure that each ETF had a bear and bull version, so that depending on where the market is, you could “short†or buy the market. Below is the list of 11 ETF pairs (bull and bears) I came up with. The concept is to buy TNA (Small Cap ETF), for instance, sell it, and then if another buying opportunity comes up, buy FAS (Financial index) and sell, then TYH (Tech) or Russell2k…. etc etc.
Bottom line as long as you buy different indexes / base ETF’s then its not a WASH violation. AT least that’s how I’m reading. Note that I have not talked to my tax guy yet.
Small Cap
Direxion Daily Small Cp Bull 3X Shs(ETF) TNA
Direxion Daily Small Cap Bear 3X Shares TZA
Tech
Direxion Daily Tech Bull 3x Shs (ETF) TYH
Direxion Daily Tech Bear 3x Shs(ETF) TYP
Finance
Direxion Daily Finan. Bull 3X Shs(ETF) FAS
Direxion Daily Finan. Bear 3X Shs(ETF) FAZ
Large Cap
Direxion Daily Large Cp Bull 3X Shs(ETF) BGU
Direxion Daily Large Cap Bear 3X Shares BGZ
S&P 500
ProShares UltraPro S&P 500 (ETF UPRO
ProShares UltraPro Short S&P 500 (ETF) SPXU
Energy
Direxion Daily Energy Bull 3X Shs(ETF) ERX
Direxion Daily Energy Bear 3X Shs(ETF) ERY
Russell2000
ProShares UltraPro Russell2000 ETF URTY
ProShares UltraPro Short Russell2000 ETF SRTY
Semiconductor
Direxion Daily Semiconductor Bull 3X Shs SOXL
Direxion Daily Semiconductor Bear 3X Shs( SOXS
NASDAQ 100 (QQQ)
ProShares UltraPro QQQ TQQQ
ProShares UltraPro Short QQQ SQQQ
Emerging Markets
Direxion Daily Emr Mkts Bull 3x Shs(ETF) EDC
Direxion Daily Emr Mkts Bear 3x Shs(ETF EDZ
Gold Miners
Direxion Daily Gold Miners Bull 2X Shares NUGT
Direxion Daily Gold Miners Bear 2X Shares DUST
Re: Protection - Breand - 12-06-2011
Isn't the wash rule only in effect if you sell a stock at a loss and then rebuy the same stock within 30 days? And it is not illegal or anything...you can still do it, but you just can't claim those losses on your tax returns, they in effect are added to your repurchase price. I would think unless you are messing with very large amounts of money, they end result on your taxes are minimal.
I have yet to do that...I sold some TZA at a loss but have not rebought any. I have sold TNA twice but for a profit...
My current strat is to keep it simple and only buy TNA when I feel the moment is right.
Re: Protection - Grieve - 12-06-2011
Yeah, it's only a problem if you sell at a loss, but it applies 30 days before OR after. So say you buy 100 NFLX. It drops so a week later you buy 100 more. Two weeks after that you sell your original 100 shares for a loss. You can't offset your taxes with that loss! The IRS will catch you, skin you alive, and feed you to their tax inspectors.
It can be a major impact on your taxes. If you take $5000 in losses and $10,000 in gains in a year, you are only going to get taxed on $5,000 of gains. But if all those $5000 in losses are wash sales, you get taxed on the full $10,000...even thought you only actually came out $5,000 ahead.
It's a bigger problem for traders than investors, and especially options traders. I trade call spreads, which means I make gains on one strike and losses on the other (ideally for a total gain). I recently sold a Google spread where sold the lower strike for around a $10,500 profit, and the upper strike for around a $9,800 loss, for a total gain of $700. If I'd bought GOOG back right away, I'd have had to pay tax on the whole $10,500 - much more tax than the actual profit I made! Yikes...
It's actually a lot more complicated than that, and you can still offset future sales by adding to your cost basis on the second purchase (within the wash period).
The safest thing to do is just trade in an IRA account, so you don't have to report the trades to the IRS.