July 20th 1969 Moon landing

[Vanraw]

40 years and still amazing.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMINSD7MmT4[/youtube]

[Fretty]

Outstanding.

[1000xZero]

It was something that I am glad that I saw first hand.

[Hoofhurr]

Was it? Or was it a socialist program that drained tax payer dollars that would have been better left in the hands of private industry to develop? I say that, of course, with a bit of cynicism because the vast majority of people who don't believe it was a hoax point to the lunar landing as one of the great accomplishments of US pride and power. The real question is how do you predict whether or not something on that scale of federal financial investment and great apparent risk is worth spending money on? How do you compare it against developing solar energy or a manned mars mission? Too many Americans point to the lunar landing with pride and benefit greatly from the technological advancements that we gained as fallout but few of those same people would put their money where their mouths are and support future missions. :cry:

It's too bad really that the federal government has to take the lead on these types of projects because no other individual or entity has the means or will to even begin considering them. Humans are tight with their purse strings when times are bad and spend greedily on the immediate when times are good. How do you inspire people to value investments on decade or century long timescales other than their 401ks; investments that they may never benefit from during their lifetimes but are clearly worth pursuing?

It just seems like our business cycles are woefully unable to handle civilization-sized advancements. Does everything we do have to be profit or security driven to be worthwhile?

[Slamz]

I think that a degree of, shall we say, "speculative research" is in America's interest, both for future profits and future security.

If it's the American government's job to protect our freedom, then staying ahead of the game on technology is part of that job and a worthwhile pursuit, particularly in the areas of air, sea and space. Not only can we not afford to lag in technology but ideally we always want to be several steps ahead of everyone else and unfortunately I think we're failing in what may soon be an area that will become just as important to us as the ocean is now: space.

Failure to research spacetravel and the value of spacetravel is as good as continuing to fly prop driven biplanes. It's okay for now but we'd better not still be using biplanes when other nations start using jetfighters. Such a difference would certainly constitute a threat to security and thus, freedom.

[Vanraw]

Not to turn this into a political discussion
...
Saying we should not have done it is on par with saying we should not have bought and mapped the Louisiana Purchase. You need to put your foot in the water.

Sometimes that government needs to take that leap in order to move progress forward.

Hoof, I do like your analogy related to Solar / Green technology. Until a market is created, private industries will not move into the space with the level of tenacity needed. Same goes for space. I see some distant future in which we using space in a productive manner. Talk about off shoring Factories!!. Minning, Energy creation, and off planet living. Further out, traveling to other solar systems, and teraforming planets for humanity.

[Vanraw]

PS, it certainly was not a hoax. If people still believe that they need get some education.

[Fretty]

I also think that research, exploration and the persuit of knowledge is worth the investment. Not just as a country or group of people, but as a species all together. I believe space exploration is one of the most important areas of advancement that our kind can and should persue.

[Diggles]

PS, it certainly was not a hoax. If people still believe that they need get some education.

Yes like how

the cameras they used are not shielded from radiation which would have ruined any film (compared to cameras used now in ISS which are specifically shielded to protect film)
seeing into the camera's viewfinder thru a helmet to focus? Righttt
Manipulation of camera controls with gloves on in a vaccum

Dont be so quick to accept everything for what it appears

[Thudz]

I have a hard time believing it happened. Of course I'm not very educated.

[Kakarat]

PS, it certainly was not a hoax. If people still believe that they need get some education.

Yes like how

the cameras they used are not shielded from radiation which would have ruined any film (compared to cameras used now in ISS which are specifically shielded to protect film)
seeing into the camera's viewfinder thru a helmet to focus? Righttt
Manipulation of camera controls with gloves on in a vaccum

Dont be so quick to accept everything for what it appears

There are tonnes more evidence to prove that it was a hoax.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Moon...y_theories

Not to mention a couple questions I personally have.

Why have they not been to the moon since 1969?
*cover up answer* - There is nothing on the moon worth exploring.
*should be answer* - Space exploration is not just exploring. It is a fact for astronauts to say, they have orbited earth so many times,have stepped on the moon, and have just experienced the weightless atmosphere.

How did Neil Armstrong and fellow astronauts get past the radiation belt and come back to earth without any radiation poisoning?
*cover up answer* - They wore lead suits
*should be answer* - They never actually went to the moon.

[Zephyrs]

PS, it certainly was not a hoax. If people still believe that they need get some education.

Yes like how

the cameras they used are not shielded from radiation which would have ruined any film (compared to cameras used now in ISS which are specifically shielded to protect film)
seeing into the camera's viewfinder thru a helmet to focus? Righttt
Manipulation of camera controls with gloves on in a vaccum

Dont be so quick to accept everything for what it appears

Mythbusters took on a great deal of it and were able to bust all the ones they took on

[Fretty]

Was the camera they used up there really recording on tape, or was it merely broadcasting the signal back to Earth, where we then recorded it? And if you think about what else they had to do in space, I don't think working a camera really tops their list as "overly complicated". Just my opinion.

I have a hard time believing that it did NOT happen.

[Fretty]

PS, it certainly was not a hoax. If people still believe that they need get some education.

Yes like how

the cameras they used are not shielded from radiation which would have ruined any film (compared to cameras used now in ISS which are specifically shielded to protect film)
seeing into the camera's viewfinder thru a helmet to focus? Righttt
Manipulation of camera controls with gloves on in a vaccum

Dont be so quick to accept everything for what it appears

Mythbusters took on a great deal of it and were able to bust all the ones they took on

As in they sided with the conspiracy theory or with NASA?

[Slamz]

Oh boy, lots of flat earthers here.

Yes, Mythbusters took on several "hoax" claims and demonstrated that what you saw on the film is what you would expect to see on the moon.

i.e., one hoax claim had to do with shadows which could only come from two light sources (indicating it had to be shot in a studio). Mythbusters demonstrated that they could get the same shadow effect using only one light source (like, the sun).

Another hoax claim said that the astronaut jumping down in the shadow should have been completely black, due to the shadow, rather than being lit well enough to see. Mythbusters demonstrated that moon dust has enough reflectivity to generate the effect seen -- light reflects off of moon dust well enough to light up the guy in the white suit going down the ladder.

Another hoax claim was that you wouldn't leave bootprints in moondust, which would be too dry. Mythbusters made a faithful replica of moondust and made the same bootprint in it as seen on film.


Basically, while hoaxers can speculate all day long and come up with a hundred fantasy scenarios, none of them can prove it was a hoax.

[Diggles]

Was the camera they used up there really recording on tape, or was it merely broadcasting the signal back to Earth, where we then recorded it? And if you think about what else they had to do in space, I don't think working a camera really tops their list as "overly complicated". Just my opinion.

I have a hard time believing that it did NOT happen.

That was the video camera, they also took high quality stills, like the picture of earth from the moon you are so familiar with.

Plus where is the crater that a 40k lb thrust rocket landing/takeoff would have left?

[Vanraw]

Basically, while hoaxers can speculate all day long and come up with a hundred fantasy scenarios, none of them can prove it was a hoax.

Yea Mythbusters did a good job. this last one summed it up best. It proves the laser reflectors left on the moon are there. I stick with my note that if your a "hoaxer", then you need to go get educated, rather then regurgitate the crap.

10's of thousands of scientist involvement alone is proof enough. Also on top of that the retro reflectors, the pictures of the hardware left on the moon should be sufficient.

I think its funny that the "conspiracy theory Hoaxers" all feel they can make up shit and tell someone unless they prove its wrong, by default they are right.....

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmVxSFnjYCA[/youtube]

[Thudz]

Not that I really want to get into this but how does the existence of the reflector on the moon prove Man was there as well? We've sent tons of equipment to the moon and other planets like Mars on unmanned missions. Couldn't the reflector been placed during an unmanned mission?

[Diggles]

10's of thousands of scientist involvement alone is proof enough. Also on top of that the retro reflectors, the pictures of the hardware left on the moon should be sufficient.

There are also 10's of thousands of scientists for 'creative design', but that dont make it fact. Your argument for a bunch of space garbage is just that, garbage. Could have been planted/dropped off at anytime.

Havent you seen what the government is capable of? And you still trust them?

[Vanraw]

Pssst. The world is flat.

edit.. BTW Mythbusters is running the same Moon show tonight at 9:ET.

[Thudz]

Pssst. The world is flat.

edit.. BTW Mythbusters is running the same Moon show tonight at 9:ET.

Stop deflecting and answer my simple question.

Could an unmanned mission place reflectors on the moon? Yes or No.

[Slamz]

Plus where is the crater that a 40k lb thrust rocket landing/takeoff would have left?

And yet none of the hoax claimers has taken the time to setup a reliable replica of a lunar surface and demonstrated that this is proof of a hoax.

They just throw out fantasy speculation and expect someone else to spend $50,000 proving them wrong, rather than spending their own money (which would prove themselves wrong).


I wonder how many hoaxers set out to prove the moon landing was a hoax, only to spend a ton of money and realize it wasn't, then quickly schlep back into the shadows.



Your arguments are equivalent to this:
"Diggles is actually a 14 year old Asian girl. Prove me wrong!"
*Diggles gets on Vent*
"Well that's obviously her brother."
*Diggles posts pictures*
"Photoshopped!"
*Diggles posts video*
"Pfft, that video was obviously made with a camera that no 14 year old girl can afford, therefore it's obviously fake."


You can't prove things to unreasonable people.

Reasonable people already accepted the proof that was offered and continue to label hoax claims as nonsense for the mentally challenged until one of them can actually PROVE otherwise. Not just "speculate", ala Diggles-is-really-an-Asian-girl, nonsense speculation which can go on forever, but actually offer substantial, scientifically accurate, tested proof that it was a hoax.

[Diggles]

Plus where is the crater that a 40k lb thrust rocket landing/takeoff would have left?

And yet none of the hoax claimers has taken the time to setup a reliable replica of a lunar surface and demonstrated that this is proof of a hoax.

Proving that landing on the moon with a 40k lb thrust rocket would require going to the moon...which hasnt happened as of yet.

[Thudz]

Plus where is the crater that a 40k lb thrust rocket landing/takeoff would have left?

And yet none of the hoax claimers has taken the time to setup a reliable replica of a lunar surface and demonstrated that this is proof of a hoax.

Proving that landing on the moon with a 40k lb thrust rocket would require going to the moon...which hasnt happened as of yet.

Perhaps we haven't been back because we'd see without a shadow of a doubt that the first was faked.

[Slamz]

Stop deflecting and answer my simple question.

Could an unmanned mission place reflectors on the moon? Yes or No.

The curious thing is this:

Someone says they did X.
They post a video of them doing X.
There is evidence, outside of the video, that they really did X.

What basis is there to say, "Psshht, you didn't do X!"


Hoax claims require a basis or they quickly enter the realm of "insanity". Are you really Thudz? How do I know? Is that your computer? Did you steal it? I claim that Thudz posting on the internet is actually a hoax, perpetrated by an AI who is imitating Elvis who is actually on a supercomputer under Cheyenne Mountain, stolen for this purpose by a Chinese hacker! Prove me wrong!


Honestly, moon hoax claimers might as well be sitting there making duck noises for all the sense they're making. There's legitimate skepticism and then there's "quacks" and I'm afraid moon hoax claims are the latter.